Wasting our lives and glorifying God

Wasting our lives and glorifying God
Notice God's unutterable waste of saints, according to the judgment of the world. God plants His saints in the most useless places. We say - God intends me to be here because I am so useful. Jesus never estimated His life along the line of the greatest use. God puts His saints where they will glorify Him, and we are no judges at all of where that is. ~Oswald Chambers, My Utmost For His Highest, August 10

Friday, January 28, 2011

Going Back To Plan A

(This was written a while ago in response to a friend who asked about Saturday vs. Sunday worship and what the Sabbath meant.)

"Jesus liberated His disciples from the tyranny of law. He did this not by abolishing or changing the law but by dethroning it from its place of primacy, revitalizing it, making it subordinate to love and compassion-- to the law the Spirit." (Brennan Manning, Lion and Lamb--The Relentless Tenderness of Jesus)

The Ten Commandments were Plan B.  God wanted to lead His people with His eyes.  (Psalm 32:8)  Plan A was to live in constant fellowship with God--as Adam and Eve did--so that laws were not necessary.  But, because the people had "hard hearts" (Matthew 19:8) laws were necessary.  They (we!) were so fickle that even while Moses was on the mountain seeing the glory of God, they were building an idol of gold to worship.

When Jesus came, died, and rose again, He reversed the curse of the law.  We no longer are bound to the letter of the law, but rather the spirit of the law.  We can have PLAN A!  We can have fellowship with God and be led by His eyes. 

So, what about Plan B?  If you look, Jesus exalted each commandment to a higher place.  For example one of the commandments (number 6)  is, "Do not murder."  To keep the letter of that law would mean anything up to killing someone is OK.  But, Jesus said, "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.' But I say to you whoever is angry with his brother without cause shall be in danger of the judgment.  And whoever says to his brother 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council.  But whoever says 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire."  (Matthew 5:21-22)  Set free by the exalted commandment, now you don't just refrain from murdering, you must be kind!

You'll find the same principle in place with the other commandments.  "Do not commit adultery" is now "Don't even look with lust or you've already committed adultery."  Set free by the exalted commandment, you must not only be physically faithful, you must be emotionally and spiritually faithful--ALL THE TIME.

"Do not bear false witness" is now don't swear at all.   No swearing allowed by heaven, earth, or even your own head.  Your "yes" has to be "yes" and your "no", "no".  Set free by the exalted commandment we must now give account for EVERY WORD, not just the ones we "really mean."

Likewise with the Sabbath, Jesus, in His completing work, has made EVERY DAY HOLY.  He has erased distinction between what is holy and what is common.

The Old Law was necessary so that the unclean didn't defile the clean.  If someone who was unclean touched a clean person that person became unclean.  BUT, now under the New Covenant, if a clean person touches someone unclean the unclean becomes clean!  Jesus was free to touch the lepers, to touch the woman caught in fornication, to pick grains on the Sabbath, to heal on the Sabbath.  He did not become unclean by doing so.  Why?  Because He sanctified all things!  He makes all things new!  (Revelation 21:5)

Jesus established the principle--which has always been the heart of the commandments, but was hidden by the law--that the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath.  (Mark 2:28) 

Further, the Apostle Paul wrote extensively on Christin Liberty.  In Romans 14 he wrote, "For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables.  Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him.....One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike.  Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.  He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it.  He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks....I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean by itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean...."

Do not lose your firm grasp on your liberty in Christ.  It was for FREEDOM that Christ has made us FREE!

For our family, we choose to take Sundays as a day of rest and worship.  However, if one has to work on Sundays (and sometimes this is inevitable.  Aren't you glad that doctors, ambulance drivers, firefighters or even the waitress at the restaurant where you eat after church are working on the "Sabbath"?) they can choose to observe Saturday or Monday as their Sabbath.  They must just take time to rest and to acknowledge the Lord.  Jesus has fulfilled the Sabbath (becoming our Sabbath rest, it says in Hebrews), making every day holy to Himself--if you walk with God!

20 comments:

THE Princess Bombshell* said...

Good job, doll face.

Joshswife said...

Very good! I used to be very judgemental in regards to this issue, but I have begun to realize in the last few years what REAL FREEDOM MEANS.
It's actually been interesting in conversations with Jael and Abishai with what it means to HAVE church, what it means to have relationship with Christ, what it means to have a day of rest.
Anyway, EXCELLENT...

Little Bit Of Land... said...

I wonder what tradition dictated the followers of Christ do... before the New Testament was even assembled? Don't forget... the New Testament wasn't always around. The followers of Jesus had nothing but tradition & teachings, handed down to them by the apostles & disciples of Christ, before they figured that maybe they'd better accumulate some of the letters & writings into one place (aka: The New Testament), to pass down to the generations. It's a shame so much of the New Testament is left to private interpretation. Even satanists could find some sort of "truth" to support their cause, by reading certain things into the New Testament words that were never intended.

Hope all is well there in California. Here in Indiana it's cold & snowy... and we're looking forward to the first signs of spring in about 6-8 weeks. Wheee!!

:-))

Happy Elf Mom said...

What a beautiful, beautiful post! Thank you for blessin' me today. :)

Teshuva said...

Shalom Daja, I finally got in to post! Whew!

Here are my comments in 2 parts

Part 1
You wrote many wonderful and true things in your post but I would like you to consider the following.

When Adam and Eve were in the garden, The LORD met with them and walked with them. He spoke to them and thus shared who He is. It was with a decision to change/disregard what He said that led to the eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

There was some knowledge of what the "law" contained before Moses. Cain and Abel brought offerings and Noah had clean and unclean animals aboard the ark.

Where does it say He led them with His eye?

The giving of the "Law" or truly the Torah which is instruction was to reveal again His Heart. To teach us of how to love Him and others. When Jesus came, He expounded on it showing a greater depth. The "law" is only harsh when used wrong. Just like a stove can be wonderful to cook and bake us wonderful things for our delight but if the gas is left on a spark can have it blow up and devastate a home. The gas alone can kill us if breathed in.

Jesus did not do away with the Sabbath. He saw they were misusing it. Life trumps! The hardness of heart had to do with the healing and the nourishment of those hungry. Their misuse of the WORD is what angered Him. He did not say to change the Shabbat, He celebrated it. It is clearly stated as to when it is suppose to be.

Exodus 20:8-11 “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
“Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.
“For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.

Teshuva said...

Part 2 Correction to part 1
Psalm 32:8 I will instruct you and teach you in the way which you should go; I will counsel you with My eye upon you.

It is only after we have been instructed and taught that He will cousel us with His eye.

The "law" is not tyranny that we needed to be freed from, but the penalty and consequences of when it was misused. Freedom is following it as Jesus did.

Like a marriage the cloud above Mt Sinai was like a Chuppah (a wedding canopy) and the giving of not commandments but His Words was a marriage agreement as like a Ketubah.

I remember a tv movie about Princess Diane when she was to marry Prince Charles. In the one scene she was skipping down the staircase when the Queen Grandmother stopped her. She was now going to be part of the royal family. She must conduct herself as such. So she made her go up and come down gracefully and dignified. So too with the instruction our beloved Father gave us as His children.

Jesus said ...John 14:15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments."

Those commandments were the Torah, Genesis - Deuteronomy. He did not come to do away with them as He said in Matthew 5:17-20 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
“For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
“Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
“For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

He kept the Shabbat, He did not say to change it. It is dangerous when we choose to change what He has said. The Shabbat is Friday evening to Saturday evening. We can and should worship and follow Him on all days, but our day of rest is the Shabbat. It is part of our being a light to the world for we are putting what He has said first.

1 Samuel 15:29 29“Also the Glory of Israel will not lie or change His mind; for He is not a man that He should change His mind.”

Shalom,
Vickie

Gombojav Tribe said...

Thanks for posting it here, Vickie.


You are completely entitled to your opinion and I appreciate you being willing to share it! It's not always easy to disagree agreeably in blogland. So, thanks!!!

:-)

However, nothing you've written changes my position. Sorry!

Jesus did fulfill the law--and elevated it to a higher place. As stated in my post. I never said that Jesus did away with the 10 commandments. Only that He freed us to live above them! He doesn't want His people to have to be bound to Kingdom Principles, but rather to live in the King's Presence!

My post was not about doing away with the law--but be bound to a HIGHER law! Romans 7:6, "But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter."

Also, in regard to Psalm 32:8: You wrote, "It is only after we have been instructed and taught that He will cousel us with His eye." It's not necessarily good exegetical practice to interpret Scripture sequencially unless the verse specifies or directs the reader to do so. I'm not saying it's wrong to interpret this verse that way, only that there isn't exegetical foundation to do so and may not hold up under scrutiny.

"I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go; I will guide you with My eye." This must be understood IN CONTEXT. The verse directly after says, "Do not be like the horse or like the mule, Which have no understanding, Which must be harnessed with bit and bridle, Else they will not come near you."

The verse is about how we are controlled. Will we have to be controlled like a horse with a bridle and harness? OR will we be so in His presence and know Him so well, that we can be guided by His eye?

And the "instruct" and "teach" in this verse....what do those words actually mean, in their original language?

"Instruct" means "to be prudent, be circumspect, wisely understand, prosper."

"Teach" means literally "to throw or shoot" or in a figurative sense, "to direct."

Neither of these words have the connotation of being given a list of rules to follow and no reference is made to the Law. How much better it is to walk with God in such a way that He prospers us, that we become prudent and like an arrow he throws or shoots us--directing us strategically than to be harnessed and bridled else we will not walk with Him.

(Anyway, that's all I have time for right now. And I'm sure it's full of typos. But, there ya go! *smile*)

Teshuva said...

Shalom Daja,

We may not change each others position but it is good to look at the WORD from different perspectives to learn. Proverbs 27:17 Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

I appreciate a discussion of differing views of what The LORD is teaching us!

Jesus did not bring a new "law" but gave a greater depth to the one already given, as in your examples from Matthew where adultery and murder were expounded on.

As to Psalm 32 any animal must first be trained, taught etc to respond. But despite the training they don't have the understanding we do. So first we are taught or instructed in the ways we are to go. As with the Children of Israel, who too, were saved by the Grace of the LORD, He then brought them to Mount Sinai to learn His Ways.

The Bible must be taken in context as you said. Consider that the LORD rebuked Israel for not keeping His Sabbaths as He said....

Beside the original Command in Genesis 2:3, and expounded on in Exodus 20:8-11; He taught them a practical lesson when the Manna He gave only appeared during the week and could only save it for the Sabbath....Exodus 16:27-34 The LORD said..28-29 Then the LORD said to Moses, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My instructions? 29“See, the LORD has given you the sabbath; therefore He gives you bread for two days on the sixth day. Remain every man in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.” So the people rested on the seventh day.

Exodus 31:13 13“But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, ‘You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you.

Holy means set apart, observing the Sabbath is one of the ways we are called as His people to be set apart.

Isaiah 56 speaks of the Sabbath if one were to say it is only for the Jews...
6 “Also the foreigners who join themselves to the LORD, To minister to Him, and to love the name of the LORD, To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the sabbath And holds fast My covenant;7 Even those I will bring to My holy mountain And make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar; For My house will be called a house of prayer for all the peoples

End of Part 1

Teshuva said...

Part 2 The LORD gives a blessing for keeping it...Isaiah 58:13 “If because of the sabbath, you turn your foot From doing your own pleasure on My holy day, And call the sabbath a delight, the holy day of the LORD honorable, And honor it, desisting from your own ways, From seeking your own pleasure And speaking your own word, 14 Then you will take delight in the LORD, And I will make you ride on the heights of the earth; And I will feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father, For the mouth of the LORD has spoken.”

The LORD warns against not keeping it...Jeremiah 17:27 “But if you do not listen to Me to keep the sabbath day holy by not carrying a load and coming in through the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day, then I will kindle a fire in its gates and it will devour the palaces of Jerusalem and not be quenched.”’”

Ezekiel 20:21 “But the children rebelled against Me; they did not walk in My statutes, nor were they careful to observe My ordinances, by which, if a man observes them, he will live; they profaned My sabbaths. So I resolved to pour out My wrath on them, to accomplish My anger against them in the wilderness.

Jesus observed the Sabbath as the LORD intented. Matthew 12 discusses this. When picking the grain on the Sabbath, Jesus spoke of what David did with the eating of the showbread. That one time did not change that the showbread was suppose to be eaten only by the priests, but it was the need of the moment. Same too with the healing of the hand.

He did not change or negate the Sabbath. After He died, His followers were observing the Sabbath...Luke 23:56Then they returned and prepared spices and perfumes. And on the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.

Through out the book of Acts the followers observed the Sabbath. In fact one of the things decided for the new gentile believers was to learn of Moses on the Sabbath....Acts 15: 21“For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

Deut 4:2 “You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is tested; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him. Do not add to His words

Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar

The freedom we have is in following Him. An example I heard once was about a group of children playing on a hill top. It was dangerous as they might fall off, but the addition of a fence provided them the freedom to play without fear or worry. So too is the WORD for us.

I just don't see where our Messiah said we had the freedom to make such a change as to change when the Sabbath is. The Sabbath is friday night to saturday night regardless of whether we celebrate it or not. It is our choice to do so.

Lots of damage has been done when we make such choices to change what He has said. Matthew 5:18-19 “For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. “Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

It is through His WORD that we can know Him.

Shalom,
Vickie

Lady Dorothy said...

I do believe that if we follow any part of the law, we will be blessed in that part. (If we follow the dietary laws, then our health will be blessed.) However, we are not under bondage to do so. If we truly believe that the Sabbath is to be set apart, because we are following the law, then I believe one must do it fully in accordance with the law. To say one observes the Sabbath, but then even drives to church or a park or restaurant, one is failing in their observance. I think it is a grave thing to place oneself under the law. I also believe that if you make the law supreme, you must follow ALL parts and not pick and choose. I'm sorry, but I know no one who does so.

As to the Acts 15 reference, I think the statement was taken out of context. The whole chapter is talking about the Jerusalem Conference. There had been trouble in the church, because certain Jewish Christians were teaching the Gentile Christians that they must follow the law in order to be obedient to God. After reviewing the work of the Holy Spirit in leading the way to Gentile evangelism, and after consulting Scripture for prophecy concerning the Gentiles, the apostles agree that the law itself is not binding on the Gentiles. This message is then sent to the Gentile Christians, along with a warning that they avoid certain idolatrous practices common among pagan Gentiles. During their discussion, Paul says, "Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? No!" James is the one who mentions the law being read every Sabbath during his resolution suggestion. But, he says "from the earlies times." He was not making the Gentiles responsible for hearing the law from the beginning of time.

The passage then includes the letter the apostles send to the Gentiles after reaching their conclusion. To the Gentiles they say, "It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell" No other points of the law are addressed. When the church reads the letter, they "were glad for its encouraging message."

I don't see anywhere in the New Testament where Gentiles are commanded to become Jews. Not one place. It is not a bondage that was meant for us. However, interestingly enough, when we are intimately in communion with our Lord, grace and mercy will become our impetus to become more holy.

Gombojav Tribe said...

I love you, Mom, and your spirit of wisdom based on intimacy with Jesus.

That is all for now.

Gombojav Tribe said...

A couple things you have to grapple with, Vickie:

Christ has has abolished the law and made peace with it and us:

Ephesians 2:15, "...having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace..."

We have been released from the law and are now commanded to serve in the Spirit:

Romans 7:6, "But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code."

The law was weak and could not accomplish what we needed to be saved:

Romans 8:3 "For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh..."

Karen Joy said...

I must admit: I did not read all of the comments. So, perhaps this was covered already.

To me, I think that "not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near" (Heb 10:25) is the more significant than WHEN you meet. There is power and a special blessing, I believe, when the believers gather together. Psalm 133:1-3, depending on the translation, says that the Lord even commands His blessing on those who dwell together in unity! Not that dwelling together in unity is exactly the same as gathering for church, but I think the concept is the same.

The only problem I have with church being on alternate nights is... well... there is a giganto-mega church just down the road from our house, and it, of course, offers Saturday night services. A good number of people with whom I'm acquainted, or who I meet, say that they go to church on Saturday night ILO Sunday morning, because that affords them the opportunity to sleep in, have a lazy morning and a late breakfast on Sunday. :( I think that's lame. It seems like the desire to have one's cake and eat it, too, which doesn't strike me as being particularly in line with what I know of the character of God, and what He calls us to as believers. There is a fine line, at times, between Godly discipline and being "under the law", but if the ONLY reason one attends church on a Saturday eve is so that one can be lazy on a Sunday... IDK. I find it hard to agree with that.

HOWEVER. I'd also rather have someone IN a church -- no matter the reason -- than NOT. So, if it takes a Sat eve service to accommodate that, even if I don't agree with the reasons, well, then, so be it.

Teshuva said...

Shalom Dorothy,

I thank you for joining the discussion. It is good to look at the scriptures inside, outside, upside and downside to see what the LORD is teaching us. When one gets into such discussions, we all grow.

If,as you said, we are blessed by following the instructions of the law/Torah, why? Is it not because it is what the LORD has said to do? Has not Jesus Himself said "If we love Him, we would keep His commandments". How can we take a smorgasbord approach to the scriptures? This is what sent me to study the Bible from beginning to end and led me to become Torah Observant. I have noticed that as the church and it's people started picking and choosing, we lost our generations' battle for the LORD.

Can you say that you have not picked and chosen? Don't we all at times want to conveniently forget or by pass a command, just as King David did with Bathsheba? Then that is where Grace comes in as we have Jesus when we turn back and repent. We fought to keep the 10 Commandments in our society and yet little by little we have not kept them ourselves. I speak in general of the followers. The Torah has instructions that are specific for different people, there are instructions for the Priests, Levites and women that others can not do.

As to Acts 15 It was not as an act of obedience but for salvation........
After they had stopped speaking, James answered, saying, Brethren, listen to me.
“Simeon has related how God first concerned Himself about taking from among the Gentiles a people for His name.
“With this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written,
˜After these things I will return, And I will rebuild the tabernacle of David which has fallen, And I will rebuild its ruins, And I will restore it,
So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord, And all the Gentiles who are called by my name,
Says the Lord, who makes these things known from long ago.
“Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles,
but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.
“For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath

These men were Jews. Before Constantine, Christians were part of the Jews. Their thinking was based in the OT. Why would they not think to have the gentiles follow the instructions of the LORD for at various times throughout Exodus- Deuteronomy it says it is for the stranger or foreigner to follow it too....Numbers 15:16‘There is to be one law and one ordinance for you and for the alien who sojourns with you.’” end Part 1

Teshuva said...

Part 2

These men were Jews. It seems like that just didn't want them overwhelmed and so discouraged so they would have them learn more after starting off. With many Torah observant people, they seem to start with Sabbath and the food and then move on. Before Constantine, Christians were part of the Jews. Their thinking was based in the OT. Why would they not think to have the gentiles follow the instructions of the LORD for at various times throughout Exodus- Deuteronomy it says it is for the stranger or foreigner to follow it too....Numbers 15:16‘There is to be one law and one ordinance for you and for the alien who sojourns with you.’”

Deut 16: 16-19
This day the LORD your God commands you to do these statutes and ordinances. You shall therefore be careful to do them with all your heart and with all your soul. 17You have today declared the LORD to be your God, and that you would walk in His ways and keep His statutes, His commandments and His ordinances, and listen to His voice. 18The LORD has today declared you to be His people, a treasured possession, as He promised you, and that you should keep all His commandments; 19and that He will set you high above all nations which He has made, for praise, fame, and honor; and that you shall be a consecrated people to the LORD your God, as He has spoken.

Remember it is not for salvation but as in any family to follow the ways of the household. It is a witness to the nations.

Deut 4:5-8 See, I have taught you statutes and judgments just as the LORD my God commanded me, that you should do thus in the land where you are entering to possess it. 6So keep and do them, for that is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the peoples who will hear all these statutes and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people. 7For what great nation is there that has a god so near to it as is the LORD our God whenever we call on Him? 8Or what great nation is there that has statutes and judgments as righteous as this whole law which I am setting before you today?

Jesus says...Matthew 11:28-30 28“Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. 29“Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30“For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

Deut 30:10if you obey the LORD your God to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this book of the law, if you turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and soul.
11For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. 12It is not in heaven, that you should say, ˜Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?13 Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ˜Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it? 14But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it.

It is joyful to do as our Father says and Messiah has exampled! While we are grafted into Israel, it is not about Jewishness it is about doing what the Father has said. He chose them to be the nation that Messiah would come from. To be an example too of His people. Like them,we have not done a good job as can be seen by the changes in society.

It is those who seek Him who are led to be more holy, or set apart as it means

But all this leads back to my original question which is where is the Sabbath changed to be any day we want in the Bible?

Shalom,
Vickie

Teshuva said...


Shalom Daja,

Looking in context at Ephesians 2 what about Eph 2:8-11 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

The Law or Torah (Genesis - Deuteronomy) was never meant for salvation, man perverted it. The LORD has always saved His people by Grace. But it is His instructions to walk as He would have us. As Jesus did thus to walk as He did we should live accordingly.

This is Ephesians 2:15 in context...Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands—
remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall,
by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,

Is this not truly speaking of the enmity of Jew and Gentile? Are we not grafted into the Household of the LORD as in Romans 11? In which we are to make the Jews jealous. How but by living as the LORD has said.

Would the Spirit of the LORD ever contradict what He has said?

Again the Torah or Law was NOT for salvation but to teach us to live as He Himself has said.

So where are we given permission to change what He has said?

Worship any time, that is good! But the Sabbath is friday night to saturday night according to the Bible.

Thank you for the discussion! :)

Shalom,
Vickie

Gombojav Tribe said...

As Bill Johnson has been known to say: "God never violates His word. But He's quite comfortable violating our understanding of His word."

And as Forest Gump would say: That's all I have to say about that!

LOL!

Seriously, though, I just don't have time to properly respond at the moment. It's my birfday!

Teshuva said...

Happy Birthday Daja!

Thank you for the discussion!

May the LORD bless your day!

Shalom,
Vickie

Little Bit Of Land... said...

Happy Belated Birthday, Daja. I did not know or I would have sent you a card. :-(

I have enjoyed reading this discussion very much, even though nothing I said was addressed. Sometimes theological discussions can wear a body out, can't they? I simply don't know enough to be able to defend what I believe... all I know is that I believe it. Sometimes that's got to be as good as it gets, in discussions like these. I have returned to my Roman Catholic faith (you recognized I had returned even before I did, Daja!) & what Holy Mother Church teaches me, I believe. Sometimes I can justify things no better than to simply say I believe it because the Catholic church teaches it as truth. I hope the Lord blesses me for obedience, if nothing else.

God's blessings be upon you today.

Love~ Andrea
xoxoxoxo

Gombojav Tribe said...

Discussions of this nature can indeed wear one out! However, I love a good debate. I just do not have time to do this one justice. (Of course when posting it I had no intention of stirring up a debate. THOUGHT I was just posting an uplifting little piece of theological reflection. How naive of me, I know. LOL!)

I am happy, always, to hear you returning to your roots!! As you know, I have great respect for the Catholic church and wish Protestants and Catholics had more dialogue and less prejudice between them. One day.

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